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4k Projectors Buyers and Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Ronald Epstein, Jan 18, 2017.

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  1. Message #1 of 358 Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
    Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    This will be the year I upgrade my Sony HW55ES projector.

    I am going 4k......unfortunately.

    I am sorry for my lack of anticipation, but I'm not fond of the costs in upgrading to a format that still has not met all its specs. Then there's the studios who have done a half-ass job with their releases.

    However, as someone who has always tried to stay a step ahead of the curve -- and as an co-owner of a forum like this --- I suppose I should be embracing this format.

    So.....here I am.

    From what I understand, a laser projector is the way to go.

    I know Sony has an ultra-expensive model introduced last year. I can't afford the $60k model, but the next one down is obtainable. Epson has a cheaper model.

    I haven't even started investigating the specs of either. Really, I had hoped to cheat and ask the Home Theater Forum community what they thought.

    Do I need the best out there? That depends on the price. I know that my needs include the best 4k presentation that can be had and 3D capability.

    I don't know if pixel shifting is a good thing. I want true 4k projection.

    I expect to purchase the projector in about 3-4 months. I can actually wait a year or more if you guys think we aren't quite where we need to be with 4k projectors yet.

    The most important thing I can say is that I don't want buyers remorse. I don't want to spend thousands on a 4k projector that isn't up to specs, only to be replaced by one that is in the next year or two. If that's the case, I would rather wait.

    I am only doing this once.

    Thanks everyone!
     
  2. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Nowhere good. Fake 4K with hdr at $3k or real 4K without HDR at $8k+. Stick with what you've got and hope the logjam breaks at CEDIA
     
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  3. Dave Upton

    Dave Upton Audiophile
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    That's not quite accurate Sam. The Sony 375ES and 675ES both support HDR and true 4K. I have the 675 in my theater. The 375 is significantly less than 8k if you get a good deal
     
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  4. TheBat

    TheBat Producer

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    I think you can wait another year.. it still early.. this year they are releasing the dolby vision.. format war over hdr 10 and dolby vision.

    Jacob
     
  5. Nick*Z

    Nick*Z Supporting Actor

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    Ron: Sweat it out. This is not the time to get flippant with your cash. I sense and relate to your regrets and desperation too. But I am hesitating until everyone gets on board with a 'standard' in much the same way I've absolutely refused to upgrade to the new Oppo 4K player because of its glitches and also, for the reason it lacks Dolby Vision which is being promised in all 'upgraded' players later this year. The Oppo rep hinted somewhere around June.

    Epson's pixel shifting 5030 projector thoroughly impressed me, even if it is faux 4K. By far the best bang for the buck currently without sacrificing PQ on a screen max of 133 diagonal inches. Impressive to say the least. Good motion control, no blur, smooth transitioning without loss of fine detail. In the words of the immortal George and Ira Gershwin, "who could ask for anything more?!" And having attended shows and demos a plenty, honestly, the $30,000 plus models offered only marginal improvements to my eyes on screens of comparable size. Lets be clear here. The 'real' value of dropping a house payment on a deluxe projector is when the screen size exponentially grows to some gargantuan dimension. The losses in color density, detail, etc. et al become negligible to non-existent. But if you're looking to do yourself proud in a traditional home set-up (you know, a basement with 8 ft. ceilings and a screen that isn't 1 1/2 football fields in length) then the Epson is a solid choice with great value and sure to please. Best.
     
  6. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    I would have jumped on the Sony 675ES

    However, I do get the sense that we just aren't where we need to be with projectors yet. Your recommendation to wait for Dolby Vision is a good one.

    Keep this thread in mind, guys. If you think it's getting time to look at projectors and enter the 4k market, please let me know.

    In the meantime, I will keep adding to my penny jar.
     
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  7. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    The problem with buying fake 4K Nick is you are going to be beating yourself up for years riding it out until you can upgrade again. Or justifying to yourself that it's no big deal.

    My advice remains the same: If you have no PJ today sure, FauxK might be a good entry way as long as you are ok with the fact that things are going to advance rapidly in this space and you will navigate buyers remorse. If you have a decent 1080p PJ that is working fine, wait.
     
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  8. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Taking your (and others) advice.

    Holding off. I am only doing this ONCE.

    Not going to buy something halfway or 3/4 there. I want a projector with specs that are finalized.

    You don't want buyers remorse when you are shelling out a mortgage for a projector.

    Very happy with my 1080p Blu-ray projector.
     
  9. Nick*Z

    Nick*Z Supporting Actor

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    I was not suggesting faux K is the same as 4K. Merely, pointing out that at present the Epson does a pretty spiffy job of aping the 'legit' projectors at roughly 1/3 of their cost. I've seen a lot of projectors over two CES shows. Lots to admire and faun over. Almost all of it out of the price range of the average Joe who just wants to enjoy his movies the way they were meant to be seen. Personally, I am not a big fan of showcasing 2 types of technology: the first, the prototype that nine times out of ten has zero chance of ever coming to the market place as advertised at a show (the majors doing a lot of chest-thumping and 'mine's bigger than yours is' to prove they are the best); the second, a glamorous launch of a technology so far out of the reach of consumers that it really has no validity or potential to ever go mainstream. Niche markets are fun, I'll grant you. But the industry does not make back its investment on the .01% who can afford to - and do - buy it on day one. No, they make it back on fellas like you and me who work within a budget to achieve the best we can on the dollars we've earned the hard way.

    So, the more tech we get angled at us instead of them the better off we will all be. And I have to add this, Epson has repeatedly outperformed a lot of more expensive projectors touting to do as much. By your definition the Epson is not perfect. Correct. It's not 4K. But it does a very fine job upconverting and provides a rich and vibrant image with very deep blacks, solid contrast, eye-popping colors and exceptional clarity. Even DVD content looked rather magnificent on the demos I attended. And these were actual movies "The Sound of Music", "The Good The Bad and The Ugly" being projected as test subjects, not some faux 4K demo disc shot under optimal conditions to show off a level of image reproduction never again to be witnessed by the viewer once they actually start playing their own content at home.
     
  10. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Why aren't the projectors specs finalized like they are with some displays?
     
  11. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    I think he's saying the PJ manufacturers got caught flat footed with 4K. There is no doubt that 1080p PJs are amazing values, able to meet PQ of flat panel brethren while easily throwing a 120" image or bigger. But a 4K panel is a much better value than a 4K PJ -today-. We hope that will change soon, without fake 4K continuing to muddy the waters.
     
  12. DavidJ

    DavidJ Producer

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    I'm glad you posted this question Ron. I have been wanting to move to a projector setup and I decided to wait until I could do 4K somewhat reasonably. At the moment. I've decided to wait for the time being and move to a 4K panel as an interim move, but I'm following this with interest---the panels I'm considering aren't cheap so going that route could delay my move to a projector setup.

    I'm also trying to decide if I should really care about Dolby Vision versus HDR10. I've typically always had access to both competing "formats" in past "wars," but I can't decide if it's really worth it in this case and whether it should be a deal breaker.
     
  13. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    It's the reason why I delayed getting a panel and player. The panel I have does have it along with 3-D capability and the Oppo player will have Dolby Vision in the near future. Of course, we're still waiting on Dolby Vision software to be mainstream.
     
  14. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    I could get a panel in the interim, but why?

    Firstly, I would get what Crawdaddy bought. Even if I could get it at accommodation pricing (if that is possible), we are looking at over $3k for the purchase of an OLED.

    I could put that $3k towards a projector in another year.

    I already have an outstanding Samsung 65" plasma. The last great plasma panel Samsung made. I don't even watch it anymore because of my projection system.

    Really, unless you have the money to throw around, spending it on a panel at this stage of the game as you wait for a projector may just be a foolish expenditure. I might also add that 4k still isn't finalized. Good chance you will buy something today and see that next year's offerings will have more features. In addition, the selection of 4k titles are pretty lackluster.

    Finally, I really think where you see the most significant difference between Blu-ray and 4k is projection -- though those with 65" displays have seen a difference.

    After carefully considering the comments in this thread I have come to this conclusion...

    Unless one is in desperate need of a new display immediately, I am thinking it's best to stay away from 4k until the hardware manufacturers and the studios get their shit together. It really was a half-ass launch.
     
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  15. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    You nailed it. My 4K tv does not get the attention it deserves thanks to my 1080 DLP projector.
     
  16. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Bryan, projection is amazing.

    It's funny how we would much rather watch a projected 1080p presentation than savor the deep blacks of a plasma or the improved resolution of a 4k panel.

    There's just nothing that beats sitting in one's home theater watching a presentation that mimics the movie-going experience.

    You guys told me that for so many years. I didn't listen. When I finally did, I understood.
     
  17. DavidJ

    DavidJ Producer

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    I have no doubt this is all true and it makes a lot of sense. That would be the prudent thing to do, but... :)

    That LG is one of the two I'm considering if I go that route. My other issue is moving to a projector requires more adjustments. I don't currently have room for a dedicated theater room. I do have a very accommodating wife who has allowed me to pursue my passion for film and TV. Our living room is arranged and decorated around movie watching. The family loves it too. She would even let me install a projector there, but I would want to get a motorized one and hide it in the ceiling. It would require some work (although we are doing some remodeling in the house). Or I could get a display now, let projector prices come down and maybe be in a place where we have the room for dedicated room.
     
  18. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Ron,
    I agree with waiting. I bought my HD projector last summer. My guess is true 4K HDR will be available for $5000 in 2019.

    And even though true 4K is out in projectors, my understanding is HDR will ultimately be a bigger deal than more pixels and that's just emerging in high end projectors.

    So, we've got to wait :)
     
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  19. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Dave,

    I am fine with that. And that's good advice.

    Better on my pocketbook.
     
  20. Wes Nance

    Wes Nance Stunt Coordinator

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    Wow, I haven't been on this forum in years, but have great memories of getting sucked into home theater and speaker/sub building here ages ago. I owe my entire home theater to this form... Just popped up in my email today, don't know why.

    Anyway, I agree, I would wait a while before shelling out the big bucks for a 4K projector at this point. I don't know what projector Ron is running now, but I might buy an interim projector- the JVC RS400 is being closed out for under $3k, and it's spectacular for an eshift projector. I think it seriously outperforms the Epson in black levels and contrast. For the price, it's crazy. I love mine. Just my 2 cents.
     

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